Written by:
Diane Anderson-Minshall
Alicia Goranson, the Midwestern blonde who rose to fame as Becky Conner on Roseanne, has proven time and again that she doesn’t want to be a sex bomb. After leaving Roseannefor Vassar College, Goranson, who grew up in Evanston, Ill., took small roles in critically acclaimed films and challenging guest-starring roles in television series including Law & Order: Special Victims Unit and Sex and the City. Now a hit in the New York theater scene, her latest film, Love, Ludlow, doesn’t feature any lesbians, but it’s feminist and queer enough for us to love it anyway.
I watched Love, Ludlow last night. I thought it was so charming!
Oh, good!
What attracted you to the film?
Definitely the character that I did. I thought was an interesting … female role and unlike what I usually read in scripts. I liked her kind of fiery attitude and passion, and I think that the role of a caretaker is something that is universal. I think both men and women can identify with that, her being in a dynamic like that and the frustrations involved. So, I just thought it was a universal story and I just really believed the characters and I liked the sense of humor in it.
And we usually don’t see roles where women interact with men that way too, like the scene in the office where she kind of shoots down men before they even hit on her.
Right. With Sex and the City it’s kind of popular to have a loose woman … but she holds herself back more than what’s standard, I think.
One other thing I noticed is that I think the film transcends a different audience because I think in some ways it’s about people who are boxed into their situations or stepping outside their comfort zone to connect with other people. Did you actually feel that that was part of it?
Yeahh, I think that theme is really provocative, too; how we … so easily go about our lives without taking risks and we’re just kind of plugged into our reality, and how difficult it is to change that reality and change ourselves. I think it’s a constant task in life.
Is that something you can relate to on a personal level?
Sure, I think everybody feels that way … sometimes they feel themselves complacent about their behavior or their worldview or anything like that. And I find, as much as we try to keep an open mind, it’s difficult to apply that to one’s life in a sincere way, you know.
Do you feel like you’re really picky about the film roles that you take on?
I’ve done mostly theater since I graduated from college in New York, and I’m also picky about those roles. I’d be a lot wealthier if I wasn’t, but I just feel a sense of responsibility to a degree of what I involve myself with and what the messages are in the work that I do in general. And I guess that I gravitate towards more feminist roles, or roles that depict powerful women and definitely not the passive whore. Which is not the role that I take, which is traditionally and still is the most popular female archetype, I think.
That must be quite difficult in Hollywood to want to really take on strong female roles when they don’t seem to be increasing.
Especially if someone like Julia Roberts … it’s not [that] her whole career is based on Pretty Woman, but that was really her breakthrough performance, and I feel like as a result she’s gotten to do more stronger roles, or more feminist roles, but that’s really how she started earning a lot of money and I think that’s just inevitable. I mean, sex is just an inevitable part of marketing, which is really the crux of where at least that art usually comes from. Even theater — even though the stakes are different — it’s true in theater too. People want to sell tickets and that’s the bottom line. … Dave Patterson, our writer, always says that if I had shown nudity in the film, that we could have gotten more money in foreign distribution … but what’s hard for me to understand is why our movie doesn’t get a theatrical release when other ones do. And I think that there’s a tendency in independent film to be kind of dark and edgy and almost existentialist, and I feel like it doesn’t seem like there’s a lot of room for a comedy or a lighter fare.
It seems like maybe it’s a little hard to pigeonhole too. So, we’re really used to, you know, being able to say, “Well, it’s an indie film and it’s just like Memento?” or it’s just like, you know, some of those other films that fall into those indie categories and Ludlow seems a little harder to pigeon-hole.
Right. And I always think of it as kind of like a French new-wave film. … [It] kind of reminds me of the colors and almost surrealist quality of it, but also the simplicity of it and the romantic aspect of it all remind me of French new-wave for some reason, but I’m sure the French would be horrified.
Well, in one way, Ludlow is very different than one of your previous films, Boys Don’t Cry, but I can see similarities in sort of the underlying ethos, you know, about finding your place in the world.
Oh, that’s interesting.
And finding love in unexpected places and dealing with complications that other people sometimes don’t have. I thought it was —
Yeah, that’s provocative. I mean, I think also about what you said about trying to make changes in your life and how the heroism of Brandon Teena and all the characters in that film — I mean, certainly not all the characters in that film accepted Brandon Teena for who he was, but many of them did.
Right.
Or some of them did.
Yeah, I was actually just looking at message boards this morning, I think there were like your message boards on one of the sites, but it was a long discussion about, you know, Brandon Teena and Boys Don’t Cry and I was surprised at, you know, just how long people were, you know, discussing all the issues the film brought up for them. That, you know even though—
Yeah, well, it’s funny because I think that a lot of people have said to me that they really loved the film but that they couldn’t watch it more than once —
Yeah, that’s how I am. [Laughs]
Um, too much, and I understand that, and as someone who doesn’t generally watch films over and over again anyway, I can’t dispute it.
Yeah, I think that’s really accurate actually, like I’ve noticed that a number of my friends have the same situation. It’s just like, you know, a beautiful film, you know, that you never want to see again.
Right.
[Laughs.] I read that you auditioned for the role in Boys Don’t Cry but because you were too comedic you didn’t get it.
My Brandon Teena was very, um, kind of gangster [Laughs]. Very tough and gangster, kind of, which is funny but, you know, it was a great experience trying to pull that off.
Right.
There was a lot —
Go ahead.
Sorry.
No, go ahead.
No, I was just thinking that a lot of, I mean that will really depend also on physically passing which I think is, you know, really what — I mean at least Kimberly Peirce the director has said why Hillary got that role was because she passed.
Well, how would Boys Don’t Cry have been different if you had been in the lead?
I think that’s an interesting question. Well, I don’t know, I mean, I was thinking that maybe I’m more of a tomboy than Hillary Swank, but I don’t think that’s necessarily true because she’s very — she has a lot of masculine qualities, but, I don’t know, I think that, like I said, I probably would have been tougher.
Right, right.
I don’t know, a little more bravado I guess.
That makes sense, Yeah, definitely. So, with Ludlow, this was your second time working with Brendan Sexton?
Yes.
How different were the two experiences?
Oh my God, well Brendan kills me in Boys Don’t Cry, you know, he shoots me in the eye —
Right.
Then he plays my brother in this one, so that’s your number one difference, but I didn’t really get to work with Brendan as closely in that film, and whereas we bonded off set and we were really close and I felt like he was my brother, when you’re shooting that film, so that it just seemed appropriate that he would someday play my brother and I just adore him and I adore working with him.
He had a nice performance in Ludlow too, definitely.
Oh, yeah.
Well, a few of your cast mates from Roseanne, I’m thinking of Sara Gilbert for example, really seem to shun the spotlight. Are you the same way?
Oh, yeah, big time. Yeah, I was just like, I mean this is the first interview — I don’t know how long it’s been. Well, I did Larry King with the Roseanne cast.
Oh, yeah, I was reading the transcripts of that online because I didn’t see the show and reading the transcripts it’s weird because you don’t actually — you can’t understand all the sarcasm that people have in the show, you know.
Right.
So, it would just be these absurd —
I think a lot of people couldn’t understand the sarcasm who watched the show. Which is something that I’ve figured out. I mean, I’ve gotten phone calls from people saying, you know ’cause I said that — Larry brought up the Muriel Hemingway and Roseanne kiss—
Right.
And I said that you know, I was offended by it, I’m a good Christian, and I guess you know what I didn’t say is I went to Vassar and, you know, have been doing theater for the past ten years and did Boys Don’t Cry, I mean —
Right.
Obviously, you know if you look at what I do, I don’t necessarily have the — I mean, it would be challenging to do Boys Don’t Cry if I really was offended by two women kissing.
Right, yeah, that’s funny how that gets lost on people. So, did you hear from a lot of like, you know, Christian groups who wanted to embrace you?
Well, actually a Jewish group.
Oh.
Thought that I could — I would be some kind of traditionalist Christian voice, and give commentary or something and assumed that I was on the right and that I was a traditionalist and just things I’ve read online where people say, “I was really disappointed in Alicia Goranson that she said that” and I’m thinking “Jesus, people, get a joke.” Or like, look me up online and see the work that I’ve done.
Right, right.
Definitely, you know, but my point is that … I think the controversy is something, I guess, but I just think, why talk, its not a big deal—
Right. I know.
Is my point.
And sometimes in other countries they are just amazed at how long we can talk about these really insignificant things like that too.
Right, exactly, I mean I could see gay marriage … but I just think that’s a no-brainer, I mean people should be able to do it. … I try to understand the other side of things like that and it’s just difficult to. I try to have compassion and I try to understand people, but it — I just feel like certain things are just human nature, you know?
And you’re a Midwest girl, right?
I am.
Is this how your parents brought you up or did you get this stuff after you grew up?
Well, I think I really believe that there’s something that’s inherent in us, you know that’s — that we’re born with, and I don’t know, I don’t like to think that it’s necessarily about genetics or science, hopefully it’s something more than that, but I think that there’s also experience. I was on Roseanne for all those years, and there was a woman in charge on that show, and that was a very powerful thing for me growing up. And our producer — our executive — one of our executive producers, Marcy Carsey, is a woman and very successful, and I think those kind of things, just being around that —
That exposure.
Yeah, that that affects your life, you know, I mean, I’m sure.
Yeah, definitely, yeah, it’s interesting how that can really shape you. Do you feel like you ever had to struggle to make the transition from child star to adult actor?
Yeah, I still feel that way sometimes because I look a little younger than I am. You know, I’ve been in the theater; they don’t really cast teenagers or 12-year olds or whatever, so I’ve been playing very young roles in the theater but I think especiallyif I’m not some press hound —
Yeah, definitely.
And if I don’t choose to just take any role, or when I was that age … I chose to leave the show. I didn’t choose to propagate my career and go to the parties and go to the clubs and wear the couture clothes and stuff like that. Like that to me was just a complete turn-off—
Yeah, and like there’s so little like information, you know in, like, we never see you in the tabloids and, you know, all the fan websites, there’s just so little information about your off-screen life, you know.
Yeah, thank goodness, I hope it stays that way. … You can see that it really is part and parcel of people’s careers, so it’s almost absurdist that I don’t do this. I mean it’s almost shooting myself in the foot, not doing those things, but I just … honestly feel that if you don’t, I just always think like I’d rather be practicing my guitar and becoming a better guitarist than spending time having pictures taken of myself, or going to parties because I just don’t feel like I’m growing.
Right, and the act of just being seen, like you know being at parties simply to be seen I don’t think is really fulfilling for a lot of people too, so if you actually want to enjoy your life, that’s one of those things I think that —
Well, it’s that quandary too of people who do celebrity at events and so-and-so for people or so-and-so for the rainforest or whatever. I’m glad that people are spreading consciousness about those things, but I just … think, you know, what do celebrities know about that stuff? Or how can they be motivated by money so much and fame and then, you know, have these kind of high moral values?
Right.
I guess I just don’t really understand that.
Right, it’s like you, it’s like you can afford to have lofty goals, you can afford to have lofty values after you’ve made money.
Right, it’s like I’ll drive my Hummer to the photo shoot —
To save the planet. [Laughs]
Yeah, save the planet, and I just don’t, I’ve never understood it, even though I’ve done work for certain organizations here and there. It’s been more about curiosity for me or wanting to learn about certain areas, rather than, you know being some kind of figurehead or something.
That makes sense, but what did you learn at Vassar that you were able to take back to Hollywood? I mean obviously you learned amazing things at Vassar but what about Vassar, that experience, have you been able to take back to Hollywood with you?
Oh my gosh, well, I guess Vassar was a challenge for me because at that time I had been away from my peer group for such a long time and I just wasn’t used to — I didn’t know almost how to be a college student, like I had to learn, you know I kind of felt like a cave woman.
Right. [Laughs]
In a weird way, learning all these social things that I just didn’t know in high school ’cause I was too busy with a full-time job and here doing school and stuff like that, it was so much work that I really missed out on all the social stuff that happened, and communities, you know, that sense of community you have in high school even if you feel isolated and whatever, I’d be out in Los Angeles thinking “Oh, I feel this way, I feel isolated, you now, weird,” and then I’d go back to Evanston or Chicago and my friends would say “Oh, well, that’s how we all feel during this time in our life,” and I’d say “Oh, it’s not just me,” you know what I mean?
Right.
But, you know, Vassar gave me — it’s funny ’cause I was just going out to do this Roseanne reunion for this DVD release, ’cause Roseanne just came out on DVD, you know I had to do the red carpet thing and whatever, and I just — as I was seeing everybody again I just had this sense that I could think about a life that I had created outside and I felt like that life was my friends from Vassar, and … that kind of community and just fun that we’ve had and the things and how you build a life in that way and not just— you know being in the theater in New York in the same light that I have this community here that’s separate from Hollywood and, you know, I need that, I mean I definitely need that.
[Laughs] Yeah, I can’t imagine, you know, like, having gone through my teen years or my middle school years on television. You know experiencing all that and then having America experience all that with you too, you know, and then being away from a peer group.
Yeah, well, it’s interesting because just by virtue of being on TV or being recognizable that people have projections on you … that are more strong than if it’s someone they don’t know, maybe not but — or they just feel like they know you so well which is a projection in itself, because they don’t.
Right, of course, but we’ve been inviting you into our front room every day, you know, every day for the last ten years, so —
Exactly, and it’s like people are eating dinner and watching TV and they see you’re there, which is so wild. It’s especially wild for me because I was so very different from the character I portrayed, in some ways you know, she’s a lot more kind of girlie girl than I — I was a lot more like Darleen, my personality.
That’s funny how that worked out, and you guys are really close in age too, right? In real life?
Yes.
Yeah, so —
She’s six months younger than me.
Right, so that’s kind of funny too. Well, I know you have a lot of lesbian fans, my friends just adore you. Some of them still call you the original Becky, but they still adore you. [Laughs]
O.B. That’s what I call it — O.B.
[Laughs] Why do you think — why do you think that lesbians are drawn to you?
Um, I didn’t know that they were, but I guess ’cause, you know, I don’t know, I choose more feminist projects and more pro-women projects and I portray strong women usually and, um, I don’t know.
[Laughs] Well, I was saying earlier that we know so little about your off-screen life so tell me something that you haven’t told a reporter before. Tell me anything.
Oh God, there’s so much I’ve never told a reporter. I don’t know, what do you want to know?
What was your biggest fear as a child, how about that?
I guess as a child it was maybe getting lost somewhere and never being able to find my home or my family. But I think when I moved to Los Angeles from Chicago and my parents were only with me for about a year and a half, so that other time I really struggled with abandonment issues and not feeling that container of a family, which was really hard for me, you know, at the time.
Right, that must have been really difficult. How old— how old were you then when they were not there anymore? Fourteen and a half?
Maybe like 15 or something. So that was — those years were very difficult.
Who did you actually live with? Were you living alone at the time?
I had a guardian.
You had a guardian, I see.
Yeah.
Wow, that’s interesting. OK, so if all of your exes came out of the woodwork to tell the tabloids all about you, what’s the worst thing they could say?
My exes?
Yeah.
Oh God, they’d have a lot to say — in a negative way though. [Laughs] They would probably say that I think too deeply into things, that I think too much about things and that I kind of think the worst a lot of the time, that I can be kind of cynical, and I think some guys just want to be kind of affirmed in what they do and what they say, you know? And, um, I think that ’cause I don’t do that, that has been problematic. I do it when I feel that it’s organic and true, but I don’t just say “You’re perfect and fabulous” just to appease their ego. That’s far more diplomatic than probably anyone would say [Laughs]. They’d probably be like, “She’s a bitch,” or God knows, I don’t know what they’d say.
[Laughs] Yeah, but if all they can say is that you’re cynical and over-intellectualized, that’s probably not too bad.
And I also have quite — I can have quite a temper.
Really?
Oh, yeah.
And you were able to work that out at Vassar when you were on the rugby team?
Oh my God — that’s — talk about fear! I mean, some of those ladies we played against.
Yeah, I think you really have to be a tomboy to love rugby.
It would inflict fear on anybody. Well, it’s funny because we really — I mean, the girls on our team were all tough, but they really ran the gamut, you know, as far as types, but I mean generally, yeah, you’re not some complete girlie girl that usually gravitates to a sport like that.
Right, right, Yeah, that’s funny.
I have a funny little story about that.
Oh, good.
We, we were in the play-offs, in the championships, and we were playing I think against Smith, and our ref — I was scrumhalf, which is kind of like the quarterback equivalent, and there’s this, you know, when the ball is kind of out of play then, you know, you are supposed to ask the referee — you’re supposed to say “Mark, sir,” to see where the ball is going to be placed. Usually we would have a man as the ref and in this case I really could not tell if it was a man or a woman, and so I felt like the whole scrum was kind of anticipating me saying, :mark, sir,” or you know “mark, whatever” and I did not know what to say, and so I kind of took this pause and then finally I just said “OK, I usually say ‘mark, sir,’ I’ll just do it.” So I said, “Mark, sir,” and then the other scrum half said “That’s a woman,” and I thought “Oh, God,” you know, what do you ask? I mean, you’re on a team, I don’t know if you are supposed to ask?
Right.
Then I apologized to her afterwards and she — she did not care at all.
Right, of course.
But, I really could not tell.
Right. Yeah, we encounter that, we’re in San Francisco so of course we encounter that a lot. So, and I think like usually the people that are like so androgynous that you can’t tell, they don’t really care if you mistake them, but we like get so worked up about it, you know? Trying to like say — do the right thing.
But you know, I mean, I’ve worked with — I’ve worked over the years since Boys Don’t Cry with this organization, GenderPAC.
Oh yeah.
And through that experience, I went to— I’ve been to Southern Comfort once, and I went to this conference in D.C. for GenderPAC, and I was the only straight woman there, or straight any person there. There were a lot of people of various gender orientations at Vassar, definitely, but to really be in the community and to talk about logistics and terminology of what people wanted to be, you know, regarded as or what title they wanted, you know, I’m male-identified or I don’t want to be called anything or whatever, I mean it was very — we had this very, very involved discussion, and I thought it was so interesting because a few gay men were talking about, well, if he’s effeminate then he’s a queen or something —
Right.
You know these kind of terms, and I realized, I raised my hand and I said, “Well, if we’re going to talk about all these terms and just lay it out, then what does feminine mean? You know, what does being feminine or effeminate constitute?” And I just thought “Oh maybe I do have a purpose here to ask that question,” you know what I mean?
Yeah, no doubt actually, I really think that a lot of this talk about — that like comes sort of out of the genderqueer or transgender communities actually has real relevance to women and to feminists, you know like these gender issues really bring up these — these big question like what is — you know what does it mean to be a woman?
Absolutely and that’s what I think is so brilliant about GenderPAC, is that I feel like as a feminist, I just understand that by incorporating others and I know Riki Anne Wilchins who runs GenderPAC with Gina Reiss, that she kind of had to break away from being exclusive to the transgender community, and being — ’cause she was very outspoken, you know, in the transgender community and I know that some people felt that because she was incorporating gays and lesbians and anyone into her — what she was, um, lobbying for was, you know, controversial in the transgender community.
Right, yeah.
Because they wanted her to support them, you know?
Yeah, do you still do work with GenderPAC?
Um, I haven’t in a little while, but I — you know, at the drop of a hat, I would. Because I believe, I just — like I said, I believe in talking about gender as gender and I think that there’s something really revolutionary about that.
Sure, absolutely, yeah, I think that’s really interesting. I’m interested to see how the people who right now are, you know, 15 to 20, how that generation is going to change how we think about gender, how we talk about gender.
Yeah, I mean, it’s not to say like — I also understand why community is so important too because there are nights if I just don’t go out with my girlfriends I’m going to go nuts, I mean, I need that female circle to be in just to charge up in a certain way.
Yeah, right, that makes sense, I agree with you totally too. OK, so you said you are straight, but there must have been some lesbian canoodling at Vassar, right? Isn’t that a right of passage at Vassar?
You know, for most. I really didn’t, I mean I had some crushes, but I never —
Never got to act on it.
Never went there, never went there.
You’re young, there’s still hope. Are you single now?
I am.
OK. Let me just ask you a couple questions. Do you have any interest in returning to TV?
If it was the right project, I think. I mean, it’s definitely not — I much prefer theater and film in that order.
You prefer theater first?
Yeah.
Yeah?
Oh yeah, definitely.
Is that because it’s more immediate, you have more of a connection with the audience? Why do you prefer theater?
When I started acting I was taking theater classes. I was the kind of kid — I was in the suburbs of Chicago; I was not thinking of becoming a star. Every kid has fantasies like that, but I wasn’t trying to get it or I wasn’t pursuing that. I wasn’t the kind of kid that was like doing diaper commercials and modeling and doing all that stuff, I just started doing theater ’cause the school was maybe three blocks from my house and it … struck a fire inside of me finding that outlet. Certainly at this point I am not doing it for money, or I haven’t been. So, it has to be something more than that and to me that’s really the stage actor in me, I think.
And it sounds like your parents weren’t really stage parents either.
Not at all. Yeah, I mean, I have no family in the industry at all.
Your mom’s a teacher, dad worked at the EPA, that kind of thing?
Yeah.
Yeah, that’s — it’s really amazing to get like plucked from that world.
It really is and you know there was a — when I got the role, we, you know, it wasn’t an easy decision to make. I mean this is uprooting, and you know it had a lot of ramifications that we didn’t even know of at the time. But, when something like that happens it’s just so uncanny, it’s hard to resist it.
Sure, yeah. Did you have siblings who had to be uprooted too?
My brother was out for I think a year, and went to school out there.
That’s interesting. OK, um, so what’s next for you after Ludlow?
I don’t know, how sad. I don’t know. Hopefully I can do something to pay my rent, my ridiculous rent in New York. But I really had a great — I mean doing an independent film is like kind of, you know, being in boot camp or something —
Yeah, but the good thing is, you sort of know everybody’s in the same boat together a lot of times with independent films.
Right.
You know, you don’t get any money and you’re getting craft services from Taco Bell but you know nobody else is getting any money and everybody is working these insane hours and stuff.
Yeah, and you know, I just feel like you can also — everyone also has a little more artistic authority, the less money the project has. In theater, it really— any project that feels like a collaboration, I really love.
Right, right, it’s more rewarding.
Yeah, but I would love — I mean I hope to do definitely more off-Broadway theater and independent film.
Great, let me ask you one last Ludlow question. In Ludlow, you really — you seemed to be a really strong-willed woman, but you seem like you have some regrets about your life. Is this how you perceive her?
That — that, what was that again?
She seems really strong-willed and really together, but with like maybe this undercurrent of regret.
Of regret?
Yeah, you know —
Like —
Maybe regret for being, you know isolated for so long or not, you know, interacting with other people outside of Ludlow for so long.
Yeah, I guess I think that she’s so in that situation that she doesn’t really see outside, you know, and I guess I think of regret as being outside and kind of commenting on the situation, but I feel like she’s so in it, that it’s more just feeling hopeless. I mean I think when we see her she is really at her wits’ end because she’s realizing that this isn’t all who she is.
Yeah, I thought it was really relevant, I have a sister-in-law who has Down’s Syndrome and so there were parts of it where I felt like oh, well, you know, any person who’s actually dealing with, you know, not just, you know, a person like Ludlow, but in so many different ways, if you have a kid with ADD, or if you have a parent who’s older that you’re now caretaking for, all these different things, you know, you can really see those moments of frustration are really similar.
Well, I think what’s so hard about that role is that from the outside everybody thinks you’re a saint.
Sure.
You know, everybody says, “Oh, she’s Mother Teresa, she’s sacrificing her life for this person, she’s a hero, she’s this,” and I think that because of that it almost becomes like a guilt for the person to say, “Hey, I don’t want to be a saint, that’s not who I am” and that’s — you know speaking of what you want to be identified as, I think that’s a really tricky … almost dangerous thing to be identified as.
Especially for women, we have this sort of Superwoman complex too, so a lot of women are already trying to live up to so much, you know.
Well, and we also are so prone to put ourselves second.
Sure.
You know, and I think that, I think that — that’s, you know, there are cultural reasons for that —
Right.
There are biological reasons for that, but there are also a lot of cultural things that support that.
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