Talking about porn on a sunny Friday afternoon in San Francisco isn’t exactly the worst job I’ve ever had — and it’s even more fun when the conversation partner is Shine Louise Houston, the founder of Pink and White Productions, a new porn production company that recently released its first video, The Crash Pad. Houston, a 31-year-old Southern California native with a penchant for breaking into loud, snorting guffaws when she cracks herself up, sounds both amazed and thrilled at the success of her fledgling venture, as if it’s all been a fortuitous accident. But make no mistake — Houston knows the business and has plenty of ideas for making queer porn that’s both hot and politically aware.

So tell me, how did you get into this business?
I joke and say that it was luck because I had graduated in ’98 with a B.F.A. in film … from the San Francisco Art Institute. … had the total post-graduate depression, and couldn’t get a job, and was totally pissed off that I didn’t have any money. So like I couldn’t make films, ’cause I didn’t have any money for films.

What kind of films did you make in college?
I shot 16-millimeter black and white. I did a lot of hand processing. San Francisco is very, very abstract.

You mean the school?
Yeah, the school. But for me I had secret love with — I just wanted to be a narrative filmmaker. So I was at the wrong school. I figured that out a little bit too late. I was in the film department and I had this secret passion — I want to be a narrative filmmaker, but I am at the Art Institute and everybody’s doing this abstract stuff, so I wound up doing a lot of abstract [filmmaking], hand processed, and then I started doing a lot of film installation. My senior projects were actually film installations where I was using reprojected film and then interacting with the film with my shadow.

Wow!
Yeah. Film installations with shadow and actual projection of myself, and then I would interact with myself with my shadow self. So I did a lot of weird stuff like that. [Laughs.] So that’s what college did to me. After that … I couldn’t really find a job in the film industry ’cause everybody wants you to have five years’ experience, but I’m like, I have experience! And you’re just a graduate, you need to intern. But I need to make money, you know.

And pay the rent.
Right. So I decided just to say, “Fuck everything and fuck art and fuck film,” and I got a nine-to-five at Good Vibrations. I started working and then slowly started bringing myself back into the idea of even making art. And then I bought my first computer, and then I bought another computer, and I got software. Over the course of three years I finally built up my own little editing suite. I taught myself Final Cut, and I taught myself Studio Pro. I figured I was going to continue to do like experimental work, but digitally, you know what I mean? But you know, I have this secret love affair with narrative film. I even took a storyboarding class and scriptwriting class. But I am really an artist, right, and I am just taking this for fun, blah blah blah, and really hadn’t realized how much I just love film structure.

I think I really discovered how much I like narrative film when I — this sounds really cheesy — when I really sat down and watched The Matrix by the Wachowski Brothers. Not because the concepts that were in the film were so absolutely amazing, but the fact that the editing is so well-crafted, that their timing is amazing. That’s when I really discovered I just want to make films — I wanna make shit. I wanna make shit that’s acceptable and people like. That experimental stuff just puts a wall between you and your viewers. So I think that’s when I started to come out as a narrative filmmaker. So then I was like, OK, well what do I do with this information? I was still with GV and doing my thing, and um, and watching a lot of porn.

’Cause you’re at Good Vibrations.
’Cause I’m at Good Vibrations, I’m watching a lot of porn. And after five years, you know, you start to see a pattern. I kind of chalk up my time at GV as five years of marketing research because for five years, it was continual questions that I would get from people when I was trying to sell them videos. One [question] especially from women, lesbian women: “So what do you have in your dyke section?” We have maybe like four videos.

Even at Good Vibrations?
Yeah. There’s not a big selection, and what they have is from the ’80s, or it’s the girl-on-girl … made by men; it’s just a lot of porn stars with big hair and long nails doing their thing. There’s not a lot that I could direct lesbians to, or I could say, “That shit is hot.” It started to change with the whole Jackie [Strano] and Shar [Rednour] doing [How to Fuck in High Heels] … and like it was like OK, there’s a revival happening, there are actually women, dyke women, starting to make porn. So that was my first [realization that] … OK, there are new people making stuff and maybe that market’s going to open up.

And another thing … the majority of women would be like, “I want to watch something that can have a storyline. … And for men [they said], “I want something to watch with my girlfriend that’s not going to piss her off.” So, I think that’s also a response to the widened couples market. But the one thing that hasn’t caught up with the rest of the industry is dyke porn. Once again I think it boils down to economics. You gotta have money to make it. And I don’t know if we’re all lacking the funds or we’re afraid to jump into that industry. I don’t know what it is. But I feel like there are a lack of women filmmakers, especially in porn. Real women filmmakers, like in the industry. It’s sad, ’cause I mean, God, you know, we need to balance it out a little bit more.

So anyway, I’m working at GV. I see all this stuff happening. GV actually started their own production company. And I was like, awesome, that’s great, I want to be a part of that ’cause like we can do so many different things. And then that fell through after about a year.

This was in 2000?
Must be, 2000, 2002, earlyish, yeah. The next stuff that I saw on the market was … from Fatale Media … [who seemed to have] a resurgence. They just came out with two or three, titles back to back. The only stuff I’d seen from them was from the ’80s. And then Pornograflics came out; I think that’s Dirty Pillows from Canada. So I saw Fatale Media was doing their stuff again, and Dirty Pillows was getting in the States on the market, and I was like, I want to do this too. It had just kind of been rattling around in the back of my head. I have all these ideas, I know the what market is looking for. I know what the holes are in the market. I know there’s a need for that. Fuck it, I wanna make it. I wanna make a porn. I’m gonna do it. And that was June of last year.

2004?
June 2004. I was like, “I’m gonna start a porn company,” and it was just a weird kind of half-thought. I’m gonna start a porn company! And a year later … I’m promoting my first film. It was just like things happened, boom boom boom. Two things made this happen so quick. One, just friends letting me shoot in their house. And definitely the support from Tony Comstock, who I had the opportunity to work with right before I shot my first demo, which is the thing that got me the money to make The Crash Pad.

Who is Tony Comstock?
He’s a new porn producer. He shoots all on film, very classy, with real couples. While I was working with him um, that’s how I met Christophe [Pettus, of Blowfish.com]. So it was just like one of those great little moments of like serendipity: the right place, the right time.

I think this is really funny because once again I still wasn’t taking this very seriously. I was just like, “Yeah, I’m gonna make porn, whatever. Hey Tony what’s up?” I really just wasn’t paying attention to what was happening. [Laughs.] ’Cause I almost turned him down. I was like, “You know what, I’m really busy, but let me see what I can do for you.” I got him a location and I helped him get actors and equipment and stuff; I was just like, “Sure I’ll help you out, I’m down to help another filmmaker.”

But you know, I wasn’t really feeling the intensity of what was happening at the moment. When I look back on it, like, oh my God! So anyway, I’m hanging out with Tony and the crew, and then Christophe shows up just to check out what’s happening, and Tony’s introducing me to Christophe, and Christophe was like, “So what do you do?” Because Tony’s like, “Oh, she’s a filmmaker, she’s into porn.” And I looked at Christophe and I said, “I’m gonna be the best porn maker in San Francisco.” And I was half joking; I wasn’t serious. I wasn’t thinking anything was going to come out of this conversation at all. And he’s like, “We should talk.” I was shooting a small demo … it was basically a promotional tool for myself to try and get money. And he’s like, “Well I’d like to see it when you’re done.” And I was like, “OK.” So, at the end of the month, I shot my demo with 800 bucks.

Right before I’m about to burn it to disc, I blow out the laser … and I’m like shit, OK now I can’t be all professional and give it to him on disc. So … I do this whole process and I dump it to Mini DV, and I realize that my camera was on the wrong setting so it was on LP instead of SP. I take it to him and he pops it in, and there’s no sound.

Oh, great.
God! I’m thinking, oh great, I’ve just blown it, my luck just sucks, and he’s not going to give me any type of money. He was typing on his computer and kind of half looking at the demo … and I am just going, “Fuck! God, I fucked it up, dude.” [Then] he’s like, “So, how does seven thousand sound? We can do about seven thousand. Just let me know, ’cause it looks good. All the mistakes that you made were mistakes of people who know what they’re doing. So I trust you … just give me a production date.” [Laughs.]

Did that really happen? Wow.
I was up and running; he wants a production date … so I made it for the end of August, beginning of July. I figured that gave me a good time to actually write a script and finish the storyboard and get actors.

So you got the money in November of 2004?
I got the money the day before we shot. But he watched the demo like in November. It was basically a handshake deal. Once I had a production date, about a month before production is when we actually got the ball rolling as far as looking at the contract . At that point, we had gotten a review from Violet Blue [on Flesh Spot] and we posted that on our Web site. She’s got lots of clout. The day after we got that review, Christophe sends me an email and is like, “I think we’re going to fund your entire production and we’re going to pick up distribution.” Yeeeah. So I … signed the contract, got the money for equipment and all that kind of good stuff, and he took care of things after we got a location. And five days of shooting. That was crazy.

That was in August 2005?
That was in August. All the other film projects I’ve ever done have not included more than two or three people. So, for the first time in my life I’m managing a crew of six or seven people at a time and then three or four actors on set at a time. More equipment than I’ve seen in years and like, holy fucking shit, this is a real production! At that point, it hit me.

In the middle of production. [Laughs.]
In the middle of production I’m watching all this happen and that’s when it hits me: “I’m making a film.” Oh my God, what am I doing? I really had to laugh at myself. That whole process was just insanity. I’m not a morning person, [but] I woke up at six o’clock in the morning for five days straight. That’s not me. Just because of that fact, I can’t believe this film got made.

What’s the story?
The story is — it’s more built around a premise than a story. So this is the premise: Somewhere in San Francisco, there’s this apartment. And it’s pretty much guaranteed that you’re going to have fantastic, amazing sex with whoever you bring to this apartment. There are a total of seven keys floating around the city, and if you get one of these keys you have the opportunity to go and use this apartment and have this fabulous sex. But there are catches to using the crash pad … there are certain rules that you have to abide by. One, you always have to call the crash pad first to see if anybody’s already using it. If no one picks up the phone, then it’s vacant … and you gotta get there really quick just in case somebody else has already called — first come, first serve kind of thing. Also, if you’re in the crash pad, and the phone rings, then either you either can pick it up or you leave it off the hook so it’s busy so people know that you’re in there. Or else pick it up and invite the person who’s calling over to join your little party. [Laughs.] And then the last one is that you’re only supposed to use the key seven times. You don’t forward the key; you have to pass it on to somebody else so it gives somebody else the opportunity to use the crash pad. The thing that nobody knows is that there are hidden cameras in the crash pad.

Of course.
Right. And I — who am the original person to pass out these seven keys — I am the mastermind behind the hidden camera. I have a couple cameo appearances in the movie; I am passing on one of they keys and then in the final shot when you realize that I am the one editing all the hidden camera footage.

You have a bit of a narrative going on behind the main story.
It’s a narrative within a narrative; it’s very post-modern. [Laughs.]

So I want to ask you about your philosophy around porn, because obviously it is a politically charged issue for a lot of people. What do you say to people who would think that it’s exploitative? Do you think it’s exploitative?
That’s lending itself to a lot of assumptions about porn and the making of porn, and it’s also feeding into the feminist theories that were started in the ’70s that say that porn is exploitation of women and that sex in porn is violence against women. I mean, who’s to say that the men in porn aren’t also being exploited? It’s coming from a very extreme, sex-negative place where all sex is like violence all sex is like degrading. I think there’s also a misconception that people have [about what happens on porn shoots.] Like people snort coke and everybody wants to fuck the producer and all that kind of stuff, but it’s business. It really is a very straightforward business transaction. In that sense it’s like everything is exploitive of women. You know, makeup, clothing, stay young, stay fit.

This actually a good segue to something else I wanted to ask you about. I want to know what is hot to you? When you’re making porn, and you want it to be hot, what does that mean to you?
I’m going to give you a totally roundabout answer to your direct question.

OK.
I think that a lot of porn [that] people [think is hot is about] how much you can really see. But for me I don’t think my brain works that way, and sometimes like the super super ridiculous close-ups — yeah, they work, but are they hot? The approach that I’m taking is not making the actual sex the focus or the center. The focus is on that dynamic in which the sex is happening. Take for example the composition of Eastern paintings … if you draw the X in the center … there’s nothing. It’s always empty. Which, you know, actually seriously like activates the whole composition. It really makes what you’re looking at way more interesting. So the idea is that the sex is going to be more interesting when it’s not exactly the focus … so all of a sudden it creates a slight skew, the slight difference in how you’re looking at it. Which activates the act itself.

That’s a really interesting way to think about it.
I’ll just use this example because it’s on my mind. It’s a half idea that I have for this series that I want to put online called The Naked Eye. I do a lot of stuff with voyeurs and it’s a big thing for me. It doesn’t help that I have been reading a lot of Freud [laughs] and Linda Williams. So, the idea is, there’s this weird dynamic of this relationship happening between these two people. They’re roommates. And one person finds out that there’s a little chink in the wall, and they can look in and see this other person in their bedroom. This other person has very, very interesting fetishes. What’s really hot is the person’s discovery of the fetish, and not necessarily the fetish itself. Adventure into it makes the fetish way more hot, because it’s a discovery, you’re peeking, you’re doing something wrong. It’s that raw emotion that happens behind it.

For me … once people know what Pink and White is and I have a little income … I feel like it can have a little bit more leeway with experimenting. What I want to do is experiment with what if you can’t see everything? That also makes it a little bit more exciting, like the idea of the strip-tease — you want to see but you don’t see. It’s the uncovering and then the covering up.

Now you’re sounding like an art student.
Sorry.

No, it’s great.
This film genre is so stunted compared to all other genres. I think as a society and also somebody who’s really into everybody having a healthy sexuality, this genre needs to grow as much as every other film genre. We have films that make us laugh, we have films that make us cry or scared, we have films that make us horny. OK. It’s just another film genre. And it still is a very crude, primitive filmmaking genre. They’re way more sophisticated than in its beginnings, but umm compared to the film-making of every other genre that we have, it’s a baby. I think that has to do with limitations — like porn producers want the quick turnaround. You can’t make a masterpiece in minutes. Not that I single-handedly want to change the porn industry, just make the best damn porn I can possibly make

What kind of actors are you working with? Are you making an effort to be diverse?
Yea, it was pretty diverse in The Crash Pad. Actually I kind of had a funny moment about that. It was four o’clock in the morning and I was just tripping out and it was like, are people going to think it’s weird that pretty much every couple in there is a mixed couple? It wasn’t on purpose, but that’s kind of what happened,

Is your film also diverse in terms of gender representation and body types?
We have two really femme women, a couple of like bois, definite butch, and then there’s Jo who just totally fascinates me because like you can make her a girl or a boi. She’s great. Even as far as gender representation, I think we hit a lot of the spectrum. And also I’m going to branch out and eventually do bi productions.

I also wanted to ask you about men. How do you feel about men buying your stuff? Are you making it?
I’m all for it.

Are you going be making like porn with men in it?
Yeah.

Is this the bi porn?
Mmm hmm.

So you’re never going to make like straight porn? Or are you going to make straight porn?
Here’s the thing: It might be a straight couple, but they’ll definitely have queer sex.

You have a lot of plans ahead of you.
I have got like five or six movies in here already and it’s just like, I need capital because I have to make this shit. It’s one of those obsessive compulsive things. I made the first one and I want to do it better. It’s a passion … I gotta do it.

Visit http://pinkwhite.biz for more on The Crash Pad.

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