Written by:
Gretchen Lee
Photographer:
Mark Seliger
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this Issue of Curve:
Vol. 13#8
Ever since she was “discovered” in the early 1990s and signed to the nascent Maverick label by none other than Madonna herself, Meshell Ndegeocello has been working steadily to critical acclaim. Her debut album, Plantation Lullabies (1993), earned her three Grammy nominations. With subsequent albums Peace Beyond Passion (1996), Bitter (1999) and Cookie: The Anthropological Mixtape (2002), she continued to develop a loyal following. Ndegeocello’s latest, Comfort Woman, released last October by Maverick, is full of passionate love songs written to her ex, Rebecca Walker. Now living in New York City, Ndegeocello is also releasing an instrumental jazz album called Dance of the Infidels January 13, on Verve Records.
Your album Comfort Woman came out this fall — what does “comfort” mean to you?
Comfort’s always nice.
Where do you find it?
Time spent with myself. Prayer, things like that.
How does family life fit into all of this?
Well, right now I’m going through a relationship transition. So, I can only look back in hindsight. Family was free time — you know, time I could be myself, pretty much. Just be and sleep and hang out, do regular things.
And then, I can’t help but notice that the album seems to be a bit of a love letter.
Yeah, it’s definitely to a specific person.
Is it to Rebecca [Walker]?
Yeah, yeah.
So, is it kind of tricky emotionally to be going on the road now with this material?
Oh no, not at all. I’d probably sing to her every night. … [Some] people, they love each other, and then they take the love away, and I’m not really like that. You know, it’s a continuous thing.
So, back to the records, how is Dance of the Infidels different from what you’ve done before?
It’s a lot more instrumental material, more improvisational music. I’m hoping it will be a record that you put on to ease your mind. … I’m Muslim, so a lot of the music is inspired by my spiritual practice, and I wanted to definitely put my heart into it, but like religion — jazz is like religion, it’s interpretive. … For me, to be able to make instrumental music — it’s a lot more free, because it is just sound.
Tell me more about your spiritual practice.
I believe in angels. I pray five times a day. I try to be as charitable as I can with my income, because I realize other people aren’t as fortunate as me, and that’s how I came to be Muslim. … One of the foundations is ‘seek knowledge until the grave,’ and that’s allowed me to inform myself about various faiths and take what I need and want to from those, and just try to be a good person.
When you say it’s allowed you to be a good person, I think some people would view that as a challenge and others would view that as a joyful experience. I wonder how you see it?
Oh, it’s joyful. I make mistakes. I’m far from perfect. I’ve been a liar and a cheat. I’ve been many things. I have anger. I have intense anger, but the more I get into my practice and make those prayers five times a day … there’s five times out of the day where I get out of my own shit, like, I get out of my own head and try to strengthen myself with something that’s far greater than me. You know, far more beautiful — this whole experience of life, and when I connect with that regularly, it allows me to be a little bit more patient with others, to not be so judgmental, to not be so hard on myself. Islam speaks about the middle way. … I find joy, not in the material things, or not in achievements, but just the fact that I got to see the sun shine or the leaves are turning.
That sounds very humbling.
Humility is a good thing. One of the teachings in the Koran I really didn’t get until lately was not to walk around in insolence, not to walk around angry all the time.
How does politics fit into all of this? I mean, there’s so much to be angry about with the world.
Well, actually, this doesn’t work.
What’s the “this”? Our political system?
Yeah. It does not work. Period. … We are no more evolved than we were in the Dark Ages, politically or spiritually. So … there’s nothing to say, and no one has an alternative, no other plans have been given a chance to work. … I just feel I live in a country where, and even I’m guilty of this — I’m, like, “As long as I can shop, everything’s fine.” … And I’m a child of someone who was in the military, so I have a complicated relationship [to that.] I wouldn’t have eaten if my father hadn’t joined. Of course, my father couldn’t hurt a fly, so he joined the band.
He was in a military band?
Yes, he was in the army band, and he served, I think, 20 years, and it’s how, you know, he fed me and clothed me and gave me health care.
What instrument did he play?
He’s a sax player.
Is he still around?
Oh yeah, he’s very much around. When I was growing up he worked quite a bit and was gone a lot.
Did he play professionally, I mean, aside from the army?
Oh, yeah, until this day. He lives in D.C., and he plays all the time. He’s a real improvisational musician. He plays around town and goes and gets gigs and enjoys his life. He’s a very vibrant person.
Do you two ever play together?
Actually, some of my first gigs as a child were with him. He bought me a bass and definitely fostered in us to go out and do our thing and be good musicians. That was important.
So, as the mom of a teenager, what have you been able to do to foster a sense of responsibility to the world in your son?
Rebecca and I do it together. He’s lucky to have someone [like her] who’s very aware of things, and socially and politically educated. … Also, [she] is a loving, caring parent. I’m more of the — I’m the fun parent. The only thing I really try to impress upon my son is that joy doesn’t come from the world, that it’s an inner thing, and that you’ll constantly be disappointed if you look toward the outer things to bring your life joy and fulfillment. … We talk to our kids about sex and all that and the mechanics of it, and I find myself more wanting to tell him about relationships, the responsibility of once you embark on a physical relationship, the responsibility that you have to your friends, and to your family, or the person that you say you love.
Are those things you wish someone had tried to talk to you about when you were a teenager?
Oh my god! Oh yeah. Lately — I don’t have any regrets, I understand life to be, you know, you gotta make mistakes in order to go forward — but this thing that I wish I could change, that I’m teaching myself now is how to be a caring, loving person in a relationship, and that your actions are much more important than anything else. I wish I would’ve had someone tell me more about that, and how to communicate.
Are you and Rebecca going to share custody?
Oh yeah. … I hate all these legal terms. … I mean, at the end of the day we are the people who care for this other soul, you know, until he can care for himself.
Do you think being in the public eye made it more difficult for you and Rebecca?
Yeah. This was a huge lesson. A relationship is personal. … If I’m ever in a relationship again, no one will know about it. Absolutely no one. Rebecca used to say, “Protect it like the Torah.”
What are some things you’d want to protect a little differently?
I’ve always avoided, like, I don’t like interviews. I don’t like to go out to public events. I don’t like to be a spokesperson. Who am I to say? … My opinion is just one of millions. So that’s where I draw the line. I hate speaking for any particular thing. … We live in this gossipy society. Our music and movies and magazines are not sold for the content, for what the artist has to give. It’s sold by how they are in society. … I try to keep my son away from [that], so that he is assessed on his own character, and not mine. … It was a beautiful thing to be with Rebecca. You know, to have a famous parent and to see what one has to deal with.
With celebrities, people want to draw meaning from every little thing. I wonder if that’s ever been inhibiting for you when you’re writing lyrics?
It’s funny, the place I’ve been the most honest in my life, without fail, is the music. … It’s pretty much raw emotion. These are just my thoughts, so I don’t want to censor myself.
You’ve been with Maverick now for many, many years. Do you feel supported by the label? Do you get what you need?
Oh, I get to make music. They don’t really come around and see what I’m doing. And it’s fun — they give me money and I get to go make my record, and it’s an opportunity. I get to do interviews with you, I get to sell my record, but that’s it. That’s where it ends.
It’s just your work.
Yeah. I realize this is just a job. I’m not their most important artist. I don’t make them a lot of money, and that’s what it is. … I’ve got one more record after this one, but I’m thankful I get to make music. I thank them for that on the record. … They give me opportunities like, I can pay my rent. I’m far from rich, but I’m far from poor.
You know, a lot of folks think that if you have a record contract, you must be really super rich.
Oh, I’d love to tell them — that’s the biggest illusion ever, ever made. … I live a very simple life.
So you’re doing things like trying to plan for retirement and pay for your kid’s school and all of those things?
Oh my god, yeah! Yes, I have to talk to my accountant on a regular basis and make sure I maintain health insurance. That’s the first thing I got when I got a record deal —health insurance. … But there are no Bentleys, there’s no ice. Even if I were rich, that wouldn’t be my priority. I mean, I had a house and I hated it. … I had a Range Rover at one time, and was so embarrassed one day when somebody was, like, “How can you ride around in that and worry about the women in Afghanistan?” And, I was, like, “You’re right.”
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